![7 So to keep me from becoming conceited because of the surpassing greatness of the revelations,[ a]a thorn was given me in the flesh, a messenger of Satan to harass me, to keep me from becoming conceited. 8 Three times I pleaded with the Lord about this, that it should leave me. 9 But he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my .... Best winter socks](/img/512x512/1161875497656.webp)
Therefore, to keep me from being too elated, a thorn was given me in the flesh, a messenger of Satan to torment me, to keep me from being too elated. Three times I appealed to the Lord about this, that it would leave me, but he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for power is made perfect in weakness.”. The phrase "thorn in the flesh" is a figure of speech or illustration. It is similar to our calling someone who irritates us "a pain in the neck." Likewise, Paul's thorn was an evil angel who caused him great irritation, but not with sickness or disease. In 2 Corinthians 11:24-26, Paul lists what some of the "irritations" were—being ...In this powerful and eye-opening book, Charles Capps writes about the true nature of Paul's "thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan". He shows you how to walk in God's grace and triumph over this enemy sent to harass and keep you from God's greater blessings in your life. You can be delivered from the messenger of Satan assigned to you!Paul's enigmatic "thorn in the flesh" in 2 Corinthians has baffled interpreters for centuries. Many offer suggestions as to the identity of Satan's messenger; others despair that the puzzle is unsolvable. In Paul's Thorn in the Flesh: New Clues for an Old Problem, Kenneth Berding reopens...The identity of that thorn in the flesh has been much debated. Paul did not describe it in detail, indicating that the Corinthians knew what it was. Most commentators assume it was a physical ailment, such as migraines, ophthalmia, malaria, epilepsy, gallstones, gout, rheumatism, an intestinal disorder, or even a speech impediment.St. Vincent de Paul Charity is a well-known organization that has been supporting local communities for many years. Their mission is to provide assistance to those in need, regardl...Jul 4, 2021 · a thorn in the flesh was given to me, an angel of Satan, to beat me, to keep me from being too elated. Three times I begged the Lord about this, that it might leave me, but he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for power is made perfect in weakness.”. I will rather boast most gladly of my weaknesses, St. Vincent de Paul is a well-known charitable organization that has been making a significant impact in communities around the world for centuries. With a mission to serve those i...The Thorn in the Flesh. 7 And lest I should be exalted above measure by the abundance of the revelations, a thorn in the flesh was given to me, a messenger …The purpose of this essay is to examine Paul’s thorn in the flesh in light of a Bible-believing supernatural worldview. This presentation will first examine the overall concept of a biblical worldview and then the context of 2 Corinthians 12 and offer several key points of analysis on the nature of the thorn itself.In Paul's Thorn in the Flesh: New Clues for an Old Problem, Kenneth Berding reopens the case. He follows a trail of clues that includes ancient beliefs about curses, details from Paul’s letters, Jesus’s own suffering, and the testimony of the earliest Christian interpreters. Berding offers twenty criteria―some familiar, others neglected ...THORN IN THE FLESH. thorn (skolops te sarki): Paul thus characterizes some bodily ailment which afflicted him and impaired his usefulness ( 2 Corinthians 12:7 ). The data are insufficient to enable us to ascertain its real nature, and all the speculations on the point are therefore inconclusive. St. Vincent de Paul is a renowned charitable organization that has been providing assistance to those in need for over a century. By donating to St. Vincent de Paul, you are not on...Oct 25, 2023 · Paul saw two ways forward. The Lord could (1) remove the thorn, and Paul could get on with life and ministry; or (2) leave the thorn, and Paul would be forever crippled and slowed in life and ministry. The Lord responded with yet a third option: leave the thorn, but give Paul grace ( 2 Cor. 12:9 ). And he was enduring faithfully despite his thorn in the flesh. Much to Satan’s chagrin, life’s trials did not cause Paul’s zeal to wane. Never did Paul lose his focus on the hope that he would share in Christ’s heavenly Kingdom. ( 2 Timothy 2:12; 4:18) No thorn, however painful, could diminish his zeal.Dec 15, 2022 ... My latest book, Paul's Ascent to Paradise (https://www.amazon.com/Pauls-Ascent-Paradise-Apostolic-Experiences/dp/B08GB52LTN) focuses on the ...The thorn of flesh did only get activated to warn Paul to beware that he was addressing someone who was involved in a sinful lifestyle, whether it was incest, fornication, adultery, rape, homosexuality ,or child molestation. It only detects the sin’s of the flesh. It does not detect lying, cheating stealing ,or murder.Jun 25, 2015 · The “thorn in the flesh” is directly related to Paul’s “great revelations.” This is not something Christians need to fear, Paul is unique in salvation history as the apostle to the Gentiles, and his visionary experience is unique as well. The “thorn” is a metaphor emphasizing the ongoing, painful nature of the oppression. This teaching goes over and explains the who, what, why and how to remove the thorn. Listen to Charles describe this teaching series. Paul's Thorn in the Flesh, by Charles Capps Available Formats: 2 CD Teaching Series 2 Part MP3 Audio Download Have you ever wondered what Paul's thorn was and how he got it? …This month, on the 14th Sunday in Ordinary Time, we will hear Saint Paul make one of the most astonishing claims of his life. After complaining to the Lord about his famous "thorn in the flesh," he reports the Lord's reply: My grace is sufficient for you, for power is made perfect in weakness . The revelation transforms Paul into a new creation ... A Messenger of Satan. Paul says it was “a messenger from Satan” that attacked him, and this is what he seems to identify as his “thorn in the flesh” (2 Cor 12:7–8). This attack takes ...To keep me from becoming conceited because of these surpassingly great revelations, there was given me a thorn in my flesh, a messenger of Satan, to …St. Vincent de Paul is a renowned charity organization that has been making a significant impact on communities around the world for many years. By donating to St. One of the prima...When disaster strikes, homeowners and business owners often find themselves overwhelmed and in need of immediate assistance. That’s where Paul Davis Restoration Services comes in. ...Feb 16, 2023 ... A Thorn in the Flesh. Humility was the master key to Paul's ministry. Generally, God tells us to humble ourselves, but in Paul's case, He took ...This is the warfare which Paul refers to when speaking of the ‘thorn in the flesh,’ which is no more or less than the spirit contending against the flesh, and the flesh against the spirit” ... Paul’s suffering strengthened his faith in Christ. Read 2 Corinthians 13:5, 9and ask:Sep 5, 2023 · Therefore, Paul’s thorn in the flesh was not a sickness from God but a messenger of Satan to harass him. It was not a physical condition but a spiritual challenge. It was not a hindrance but an ... May 24, 2018 · Paul's Thorn In The Flesh. The Apostle Paul played a significant part in not only establishing the early Church but also writing much of the New Testament. Once a killer of Christians, Paul's conversion story to become a follower of Christ is truly fascinating. Throughout his writing, you can clearly see his laser-focused passion for sharing ... Dec 9, 2013 ... The physical ailment theory has been defended due to Scriptural evidence that suggests that Paul suffered physical problems during his ministry.Paul used the word for flesh (sarx) both as our physical bodies (for example 1 Cor. 15:39 or 2 Cor. 7:5 - "our bodies") as well as to describe our sinful …1) What is God’s Grace? 2) Christians do not understand God’s Grace. 3) Christians do not understand addiction. 4) Paul’s Thorn in the Flesh is not a disease but a struggle with Sin. 5) Paul’s Thorn in the Flesh was his struggle with Lust. 6) God’s Grace is sufficient for our sins. 7) Free Bible Study Guide. 7 So to keep me from becoming conceited because of the surpassing greatness of the revelations,[ a]a thorn was given me in the flesh, a messenger of Satan to harass me, to keep me from becoming conceited. 8 Three times I pleaded with the Lord about this, that it should leave me. 9 But he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my ...It also posed a personal threat to Paul. Vs. 7 – “Lest I should be exalted above measure by the abundance of revelations there was given to me a thorn in the flesh.” III. The Character of His Thorn: “A messenger of Satan to buffet me”. Much speculation as to the identity of Paul’s thorn: eye trouble, headaches, …Nov 16, 2017 ... My simple point is that Paul never says that his thorn in the flesh was a sickness or a disease. Paul never says he prayed to be healed and Paul ...Paul’s “thorn in the flesh” was the many human “messengers” that Satan sent against him to stop him from making known the Gospel of Christ. There is no verse of Scripture giving any indication that the “thorn” was anything other than people, and certainly no verse saying it was a sickness. Let’s allow Paul to describe that ...It’s instructive because what Paul’s thorn was isn’t the point. The point is what God’s purpose was for the thorn.” 19. I wasn’t able to find a good quality music video specific to a ‘thorn in the flesh’ as mentioned in 2 Corinthians. However here is one related to the various ‘thorns’ and pains we suffer in today’s world.paul's thorn in the flesh bible study index #2. reasons why it's always god's perfect will to heal every believer #7. paul's thorn in the flesh was not a sickness; introduction 7.1 #7.1 weakness not infirmity #7.2 the reason why paul was given his "thorn" #7.3 the meaning of "a thorn in the flesh" #7.4 the meaning of "buffet" Paul’s Thorn in the Flesh. 12 It is necessary to go on boasting.[ a] Though it is not profitable, I will go on to visions and revelations from the Lord. 2 I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago (whether in the body or out of the body I do not know, God knows) was caught up to the third heaven. 3 And I know that this man (whether in the ... 2 Corinthians 12:7English Standard Version. 7 So to keep me from becoming conceited because of the surpassing greatness of the revelations,[ a]a thorn was given me in the flesh, a messenger of Satan to harass me, to keep me …Oct 25, 2023 · Paul saw two ways forward. The Lord could (1) remove the thorn, and Paul could get on with life and ministry; or (2) leave the thorn, and Paul would be forever crippled and slowed in life and ministry. The Lord responded with yet a third option: leave the thorn, but give Paul grace ( 2 Cor. 12:9 ). 2 Corinthians 12:7-11. And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh…. I. SIGNAL MANIFESTATIONS OF DIVINE FAVOUR ARE APT TO BEGET SPIRITUAL PRIDE. It was after he had been signally honoured that Haman began to boast. In like manner, it was …God wanted everyone with any kind of thorn in the flesh to be able to put themselves in Paul’s place. God’s answer to Paul’s thorn is revealed starting at 2 Corinthians 12:9 – but that answer is relevant to your thorn. God cares about and provides for your trouble. Paul tells the story of his "thorn in the flesh" in 2 …Paul’s Thorn in the Flesh - It is necessary to go on boasting. Though it is not profitable, I will go on to visions and revelations from the Lord. I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago (whether in the body or out of the body I do not know, God knows) was caught up to the third heaven. And I know that this man (whether in …The Thorn in the Flesh. There is much conjecture about Paul’s “Thorn in the Flesh” but I believe that scripture makes it very clear about what the thorn in the flesh actually was. Please follow along as we address this question and study what the scriptures indicate is the truth.Yet something tormented Paul and was an incredible burden for him. Paul referred to this burden as “a thorn in the flesh” (2 Corinthians 12:7). No one knows exactly what this “thorn” represented. Some suggest that Paul had a chronic physical weakness such as an eye problem (Galatians 4:15), a speech problem (2 Corinthians 10:10), or a ...The identity of that thorn in the flesh has been much debated. Paul did not describe it in detail, indicating that the Corinthians knew what it was. Most commentators assume it was a physical ailment, such as migraines, ophthalmia, malaria, epilepsy, gallstones, gout, rheumatism, an intestinal disorder, or even a speech impediment. It is in the sight of God that we have been speaking in Christ, and all for your upbuilding, beloved. 20 For I fear that perhaps when I come I may find you not as …St. Vincent de Paul Charity is a well-known organization that has been supporting local communities for many years. Their mission is to provide assistance to those in need, regardl...The Thorn in the Flesh. 7 And lest I should be exalted above measure by the abundance of the revelations, a thorn in the flesh was given to me, a messenger of Satan to [ a]buffet me, lest I be exalted above measure. 8 Concerning this thing I pleaded with the Lord three times that it might depart from me. 9 And He said to me, “My grace is ... The “thorn in the flesh” is directly related to Paul’s “great revelations.” This is not something Christians need to fear, Paul is unique in salvation history as the apostle to the Gentiles, and his visionary experience is unique as well. The “thorn” is a metaphor emphasizing the ongoing, painful nature of the oppression. The noun […]God wanted everyone with any kind of thorn in the flesh to be able to put themselves in Paul’s place. God’s answer to Paul’s thorn is revealed starting at 2 Corinthians 12:9 – but that answer is relevant to your thorn. God cares about and provides for your trouble. Paul tells the story of his "thorn in the flesh" in 2 …Paul’s Thorn in the Flesh. 12 It is necessary to go on boasting.[ a] Though it is not profitable, I will go on to visions and revelations from the Lord. 2 I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago (whether in the body or out of the body I do not know, God knows) was caught up to the third heaven. 3 And I know that this man (whether in the ... When disaster strikes, homeowners and business owners often find themselves overwhelmed and in need of immediate assistance. That’s where Paul Davis Restoration Services comes in. ...The case of Paul is unquestionable evidence against such a hypothesis. Three times Paul besought God to remove the disability. God’s answer is that His grace is sufficient and further, that God’s strength is made perfect through the veil of human weakness.”. So you see, in these areas where there are varying interpretations, we should ... Oct 25, 2023 · Paul saw two ways forward. The Lord could (1) remove the thorn, and Paul could get on with life and ministry; or (2) leave the thorn, and Paul would be forever crippled and slowed in life and ministry. The Lord responded with yet a third option: leave the thorn, but give Paul grace ( 2 Cor. 12:9 ). Dec 9, 2013 ... The physical ailment theory has been defended due to Scriptural evidence that suggests that Paul suffered physical problems during his ministry.Feb 11, 2024 · 1) 'For this thing' in verse 8 is a direct reference to [the] 'thorn in the flesh' in verse 7. 2) 'Most gladly therefore' in verse 9 is "in answer to" the statement of God concerning grace and strength. 3) The statement of God is "in answer to" the 'thrice' request of Paul that the 'thing' might 'depart' from him. Thorn in the flesh phrase. What does Thorn in the flesh expression mean? Definitions by the largest Idiom Dictionary. Thorn in the flesh - Idioms by The Free Dictionary ... Paul's "Thorn in the Flesh" and Christian Mission to People with Disabilities. Do you have a thorn in the flesh? Ask God to give you the grace to deal with it.St. Vincent de Paul is a renowned charitable organization that has been providing assistance to those in need for over a century. By donating to St. Vincent de Paul, you are not on...INTRODUCTION. In 2Co 12:7-10, Paul tells of "a thorn in the flesh" which greatly bothered him... It was something for which he prayed the Lord to remove from him. The Lord did not do so, but gave Paul an answer that greatly encouraged him. We might not be able to know exactly what the "thorn" was, but there are some valuable lessons to be ... Jan 30, 2022 · A Messenger of Satan. Paul says it was “a messenger from Satan” that attacked him, and this is what he seems to identify as his “thorn in the flesh” (2 Cor 12:7–8). This attack takes ... Feb 16, 2023 ... A Thorn in the Flesh. Humility was the master key to Paul's ministry. Generally, God tells us to humble ourselves, but in Paul's case, He took ...May 24, 2018 · Paul's Thorn In The Flesh. The Apostle Paul played a significant part in not only establishing the early Church but also writing much of the New Testament. Once a killer of Christians, Paul's conversion story to become a follower of Christ is truly fascinating. Throughout his writing, you can clearly see his laser-focused passion for sharing ... And Paul called this spirit a “thorn in the flesh”. So what exactly was this infamous thorn, this demonic messenger? Was it sickness? Disease? Again, let’s let scripture interpret scripture. 📖. The phrase “thorn in the flesh” is used three other times in the Bible – in Numbers 33:55, Joshua 23:13, and Judges 2:3. Remember Paul’s thorn was a messenger of Satan sent to buffet him. 2 Corinthians 12:7 (KJV) And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.Dec 8, 2012 · Answer. Paul speaks of a “thorn in the flesh” in 2 Corinthians 12:7. He calls it “a messenger of Satan” that had a purpose of “torment.”. Many explanations have been put forward, but whether Paul is referring to a physical, spiritual, or emotional affliction—or something else entirely—has never been answered with satisfaction. The identity of that thorn in the flesh has been much debated. Paul did not describe it in detail, indicating that the Corinthians knew what it was. Most commentators assume it was a physical ailment, such as migraines, ophthalmia, malaria, epilepsy, gallstones, gout, rheumatism, an intestinal disorder, or even a speech impediment. There is a mighty power in prayer. Our great adversary is constantly seeking to keep the troubled soul away from God. An appeal to Heaven by the humblest saint is more to be dreaded by Satan than the decrees of cabinets or the mandates of kings. 29 The Signs of the Times, October 27, 1881. From In Heavenly Places - Page 82. PREV SELECT TODAY NEXT. Paul's "thorn in the flesh" was a person or group who was in opposition to Paul. Option #1 arguments. a messenger angels can reference a person. -however that word is used more for angel in Paul's letter. could be the super apostles. -Problem: this "thorn" has been with him 14 years ago. In the Septuagint Israel's opponents are called thorns.If you have furniture that you no longer need or want, donating it can be a great way to give back to your community and help those in need. St. Vincent de Paul is a well-known cha...May 17, 2022 · 1) A literal thorn from that time he was picking roses. Ouch! 2) Barnabas keeps placing whoopee cushions on his chairs. Embarrassing! 3) Check engine light won't turn off. 4) Left Apple AirPod won't charge. 5) Eye floaters. 6) The Black Eyed Peas and black-eyed peas. The music and the food. In this, I can relate to Paul and his “thorn in the flesh,” given as a “harassment” to him (2 Corinthians 12:7-10): “So, to keep me from becoming conceited because of the surpassing ...Jun 25, 2015 · The “thorn in the flesh” is directly related to Paul’s “great revelations.” This is not something Christians need to fear, Paul is unique in salvation history as the apostle to the Gentiles, and his visionary experience is unique as well. The “thorn” is a metaphor emphasizing the ongoing, painful nature of the oppression. Frank, thank you for the interpretation, and explanation of Paul’s thorn in the flesh. It makes much more sense to me that this thorn was a person, a false messenger of satan. In the chronological context of the epistles, Paul and the churches he planted were harassed from the very beginning by these judaizers of high reputation “the ...3. What was Paul’s “thorn in the flesh”? There are many different opinions as to what the exact identification of Paul’s “thorn in the flesh” really was. Some have speculated that Paul might have had some form of physical illness, particularly, an eye disease or disability. In his letter to the Galatians, Paul did state that he had ...The purpose of this essay is to examine Paul’s thorn in the flesh in light of a Bible-believing supernatural worldview. This presentation will first examine the overall concept of a biblical worldview and then the context of 2 Corinthians 12 and offer several key points of analysis on the nature of the thorn itself.3. What was Paul’s “thorn in the flesh”? There are many different opinions as to what the exact identification of Paul’s “thorn in the flesh” really was. Some have speculated that Paul might have had some form of physical illness, particularly, an eye disease or disability. In his letter to the Galatians, Paul did state that he had ...Sep 11, 2012 · The thorn’s purpose was beneficiary. After Paul had explained his visions and revelations to the Corinthians ( 2 Cor 12:1-6 ), he tells them about the thorn in the flesh that was given to him. The apparent purpose of this thorn was beneficiary. Its intent was to keep Paul from conceit on account of his visions and revelations which otherwise ... Jun 18, 2019 · The article pays attention to Paul’s reference to a “thorn in his flesh” using the theory of complex embodiment. It counters the emphasis in some churches on healing as the proper response to the needs of PLWDs.
THE very first time I read 2 Corinthians 12:7-9,I did not understand it. Today several years later,I will try to explain the meaning of Paul’s thorn in the flesh.. Particularly how it affects me and you in our daily walk with Christ.. 2 Corinthians 12:7-9 says”And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was …. Lms platforms
12:7 There was given me - By the wise and gracious providence of God. A thorn in the flesh - A visitation more painful than any thorn sticking in the flesh. A messenger or angel of Satan to buffet me - Perhaps both visibly and invisibly; and the word in the original expresses the present, as well as the past, time.St. Vincent de Paul is a renowned charity organization that has been making a significant impact on communities around the world for many years. By donating to St. One of the prima...Paul’s thorn in the flesh was some sort of unusual, long-term, intermittent, stabbing, face pain that was viewed by others as shameful and the result of black magic attacks, but by Paul as attacks of a demon permitted by God. This is the conclusion of my newly-released book focused on answering one of the most….THORN IN THE FLESH. thorn (skolops te sarki): Paul thus characterizes some bodily ailment which afflicted him and impaired his usefulness (2 Corinthians 12:7). The data are insufficient to enable us to ascertain its real nature, and all the speculations on the point are therefore inconclusive. All that we are told is that it was a messenger of ...In 2 Corinthians 12, the apostle Paul describes an affliction he calls a “thorn in the flesh.” We don’t know the precise nature of his thorn, except that it likely wasn’t a literal thorn.Jul 30, 2020 · Paul's Thorn In The Flesh. The Apostle Paul played a significant part in not only establishing the early Church but also writing much of the New Testament. Once a killer of Christians, Paul's conversion story to become a follower of Christ is truly fascinating. Throughout his writing, you can clearly see his laser-focused passion for sharing ... 2 Corinthians 12:7-11. And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh…. 1. We have an apostle in danger. 2. We have Christ using means to protect His servant. 3. We have the wonderful effect of the means which Christ used.The danger was a real one.paul's thorn in the flesh bible study index #2. reasons why it's always god's perfect will to heal every believer #7. paul's thorn in the flesh was not a sickness; introduction 7.1 #7.1 weakness not infirmity #7.2 the reason why paul was given his "thorn" #7.3 the meaning of "a thorn in the flesh" #7.4 the meaning of "buffet"Thorn in the flesh phrase. What does Thorn in the flesh expression mean? Definitions by the largest Idiom Dictionary. Thorn in the flesh - Idioms by The Free Dictionary ... Paul's "Thorn in the Flesh" and Christian Mission to People with Disabilities. Do you have a thorn in the flesh? Ask God to give you the grace to deal with it.Physical problems: Some scholars believe that Paul’s thorn in the flesh was a physical ailment or disability, such as an eye problem, malaria, or speech impediment, among other guesses. Biblworld highlights how Galatians 4:12-16 may allude to Paul’s ‘thorny’ physical illness. Practical Faith also explores …The meaning of "Thorn in my flesh" becomes a bit clearer when we understand who sent it, or who didn't send it. All we gather from the passage is that the thorn "was given" to Paul. But it should be clear that it couldn't have been a gift from Yahweh, because Yahweh doesn't send the Evil One or Evil Spirits to do His work.Paul’s Vision and His Thorn. 12 I must go on boasting. Although there is nothing to be gained, I will go on to visions and revelations from the Lord. 2 I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven. Whether it was in the body or out of the body I do not know—God knows. 3 And I know that this man—whether ... Nov 11, 2019 ... 2 Corinthians 12:7b So to keep me from becoming conceited, I was given a thorn in my flesh, a messenger of Satan, to torment me.Aug 4, 2021 · Paul’s Thorn in the Flesh. We do not know exactly what Paul’s thorn in the flesh was, although many theories exist. Some believe it was a disease, an eye condition, a fleshly temptation, singleness, a speech impediment, etc. It could have been any of the number of sufferings he listed in 2 Corinthians 11. The case of Paul is unquestionable evidence against such a hypothesis. Three times Paul besought God to remove the disability. God’s answer is that His grace is sufficient and further, that God’s strength is made perfect through the veil of human weakness.”. So you see, in these areas where there are varying interpretations, we should ... For though I would desire to glory, I shall not be a fool; for I will say the truth: but now I forbear, lest any man should think of me above that which he seeth me to be, or that he heareth of me. And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the …Oct 22, 2020 ... Three Benefits of Paul's “Thorn in the Flesh” · Suffering Prevents Conceit · Suffering Portrays the Sufficiency of God's Empowering Grace.The bible refers to a thorn in the flesh, each time, meaning the enemies of Israel. Here are some examples of Old Testament thorns in the flesh. 1. But if you do not drive out the inhabitants (people) of the land, those ….